Archive: Interview with Brian Zero of Siren (Part Two)

Obviously, this took much longer to post than I'd originally intended. Finding the time and the inclination to finish transcribing this was harder than I'd thought it would be, but here it is. For those haven't seen the first part of this interview, it was conducted in the summer of 1997, outside Icky's Teahouse in Eugene, OR.

Photo by Joanna.

With the trickle-down effect you mentioned – do you feel that at all justifies bands signing to larger labels?

I don’t feel it justifies it -- in any way, shape, or form -- at all, like if you’re talking about signing to a major label. I wouldn’t feel it justifies it, but I think that… it doesn’t justify from their perspective, but it justifies it from the perspective of the people who care. That’s the only people. So we could sit on the sidelines and go, ‘Well, yeah, it’s screwed up, man. These people used the community thing to get themselves a better position.’ But let’s face it: in the long run, maybe this is going to benefit us. As a stratego thing. Because you know damn well that punk rock, as a music form, is just another pair of jeans to people. But the ideals, in the real scene, that can spread through it, and can do something through it – that’s the key. I mean… these bands that are… on a personal level, for them, it’s hard for me to justify it. It depends a lot, of course, on the bands. See, back in the Eighties, especially, you’d have these bar-rock bands whose only dream in life was to be on a major label. They did not have the punk scene behind them. They had to go from bar to bar, and kill themselves in these places, and not have a place to stay, and not have people to talk to. Not have zines to give them, not have any of that kind of thing. And for those people, you can kind of give some credence to them. No matter how shitty their music is, or their ideals, you can say to yourself, ‘You know what? They have no community anyways. They’re just trying to make money. From the start, that’s all they’ve been about. But the thing with the punk thing is that it’s a community. We have a communal sense to this scene. Especially in the Eighties, we had… it was the kind of thing where a band could go and play a show, and afterwards go stay at someone’s house they didn’t know. Talk to people, make friends. Be treated differently than these bar rock bands. And that’s the thing that’s really being sold out, is the community, because it’s too easy for people. It’s too easy to be, like, ‘Well, I’m gonna be in a punk rock band, because it’s easier than being in just a fucking rock n’ roll band, and not making it. But if we play punk rock music, then we can go out there and use that scene, and get ourselves signed to a major label eventually.’ And I think that’s the attitude that is very pervasive right now. People are just… it’s easier for them use what is there to further their interests. For me, irregardless of what trickle-down effect that’s going to have on the scene as a whole, I find it pretty slimy. I find it a little bit parasitical. I mean, in the long run, most of the people who deal with major labels get screwed anyways, and I guess in that case, that’s probably going to get them in the end. For every Green Day, there’s a hundred Jawbreakers that don’t make it. And they’re not going to make it, I can guarantee it. Green Day, everybody knew they were going to make it, because it was a new thing. One of the guys in Green Day gave me this spiel once after they signed – he got in a big argument with me, it was the drummer. He gave me this big spiel about how they would never use punk rock, they would move beyond that. Of course, it was three months later, they’re on Rolling Stone’s cover, and they all have different-colored hair, and it’s like, ‘pop-punk bonanza!’ or something, and every other sentence in the magazine is like ‘pop-punk’ this, ‘pop-punk’ that. And it’s just, like, of course they had to sell it as pop punk, because they can’t sell it as being just another form of rock n’ roll. It has to have a gimmick attached to it. It’s almost… it’s ludicrous to think that. And in that case, you knew Green Day was going to get big, simply because it was a new gimmick. And Rancid got big for a while because it was a new gimmick, but new gimmicks don’t last that long. I mean, the punk thing might be on MTV for a while to come, it’s certainly true. But as you know, this society, right now especially, it’s going through cultures left and right, and they’re not lasting very long. As far as I know, the straightedge thing is moving into MTV-land right now, and I’ll tell you, that’s not going to last either. They’ve got ways to smash that one in a second. All they have to do is find the straightedge elements in that scene that are more right-wing, that are more ‘support the cops,’ and twist it into something that the people who might even believe in it weren’t even prepared for. They’re dealing with Sony, and they’re dealing with Time Warner. When I hear people say that these institutions are blind to this rebellion creeping up on them – ridiculous. These are institutions that know money. They know things on a large scale. They don’t know things on a small scale, but they know what they’re putting on the television. They certainly do that. They wouldn’t put Rage Against the Machine on TV if they thought it was threat to them. It’s just the way things go.

One of the things that I found disheartening, even tonight, is… a lot of people who come to shows, even small, DIY shows like this, seem to just in it for the music, as kind of an entertainment value. You got it tonight with the kid going, you know, ‘shut up and play,’ and I wonder if you have any perspective on that, any kind of solution you see to that?

Challenging it. I think it’s important to challenge it. I think that when people tell you to shut up and play, you don’t play. You have to engage them in conversation. I think that can be done. If you don’t do it effectively, you’re going to fuck yourself, you’re going to screw yourself over. That’s why you have to be careful, because again, you’re employing stratego. Again, it’s like being in a classroom. If you’re on stage, and you start stuttering, people will laugh you out of there. It’s terrible in the punk scene that it’s like that. But if you’re a teacher in a classroom and you can’t hold your own, they’ll eat you alive. But you can do something. You can do something that plays with their mind, and makes them think. I’m not trying to say you have to brainwash people, I’m saying that you can use that tool, and you can make people think. You can say, “Shut up and play? Is that what you say to somebody when you’re engaging them in a sexual act? Do you say, ‘I don’t want to talk to you’? Is it just screwing someone, or are you actually making love with them?” You know, for me, I believe that when you make love with somebody, or whatever, that you have to know their personality, and the only way you can do that is through communication. I know that sort of shifted into a sexual tone, but… and for what’s worth, I’m just repeating something that I heard Ian MacKaye say once on stage. He said something along those lines, it was a while ago… and I thought that was a constructive use of the tool when he did that. He said, well, you know, ‘Do you say that when you’re having sex with somebody? Do you say shut up and…’ Because it’s important, I think, for people to actually engage in communication. The idea of a tribe or community or whatever relies upon, it thrives upon communication with each other, not just people standing up there and performing like trained… I don’t know, trained circus performers. [laughs] I was going to say circus animals, but… god, I feel sorry for those animals. [laughs] I think it’s just what you do with the tool that makes an impact. It’s how you use that tool. If somebody’s harassing you, if somebody’s calling you ‘queer,’ or they’re being homophobic, or they’re being racist, even, there are ways that you can play with that -- without even invoking violence, if you’re successful – that will destroy, not the person, but the words they’re saying. And that’s the important thing. It’s like playing with the psychology of the clothing you wear, you know? The same type of thing. There’s so many things you can do on that level.

I’ve taken up enough of your time, the next band’s already started…

No, it’s okay, this is great. This is actually the best time for me to talk, is after we’re done, because I’ve get that adrenaline thing, you know?

I’m glad to see you addressing issues between songs. A lot of bands don’t.

Yeah. And especially political ones.

Yeah. Even… I know there are a number of political bands that either have songs and don’t address issues between them, or they write songs that deal with important issues, but in a somewhat clichéd manner.

Honestly, I have a problem with it. I have a real drive towards, especially with politics, I think if you’re going to be a political person, then you have to really think about the issue and understand where the majority of people are coming from. If you’re just playing music with political words to it, then it’s just like waving another flag. That’s all it is. I see that so much with people. Some of these bands that are progressive, or whatever, straightedge, even – they just get up there and they say the same bloody words. The same words, same slogans, same statements… it becomes like the rehashed motto that some high school principal would use to evoke the football team to victory. We don’t need that. What we really need is something that helps us see ourselves. And I see that sometimes with bands. It’s sad, but a lot of it’s from bands that aren’t, like, political political. That aren’t like in-your-face, hardcore-political-stance, whatever. Sometimes you see it from bands that are just, like, ‘we care about the world, but we care also about people really thinking about themselves.’ I think it’d be nicer to see more people who are involved with the political end of the music trying to get rid of the negativity, and aiming toward positive thoughts. I know it might sound dippy to some, but positive energy is what is going to move mountains. Not the feeling that everything is hopeless. When we start thinking everything is hopeless, it becomes hopeless, but if you really have a positive drive, it will show and shine in what you’re trying to do, and make people happy about it. It’s like the idea of the world going down in a flaming wreckage of carnage, or whatever, and it’s happening, and somehow you’re able to crack a smile, and say, ‘well, I tried. I tried the best I could do.’ It’s that idea that’s important to think about, because there’s always something in the world that will make you smile if you think hard enough. Sometimes we let the negative things overburden us, and then we can’t accomplish anything.